|
Responses to
the Todd Bentley - Fresh Fire Warnings
(With my dialogue
with them when applicable.)
updated 1/14/08
Click
here to see the POSITIVE ones
Click
here to see the NEUTRAL or
Questioning
ones
Click
here to see the NEGATIVE ones (Oooo,
these are FUN! What a NASTY Red Dragon!)
Be aware that if
you are an "elder" and you send me an email that doesn't at
ALL sound like Jesus, I reserve the right to post it publicly.
Because 1 Tim. 5:20 says you're supposed to rebuke me publicly. So
even if you do it privately, I reserve the right to make your rebuke
of me public - no matter how stupid and shallow. I'm all about transparency!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
Positive
Responses to FOTM Videos/Writings |
Email from 7/3/08
Hey, Just watched
your video and a couple of other videos with Todd Bentley on them. I
know confirmation helps so I'm writing to give you my discernment on
this guy. First let me say, I'm a believer In Jesus Christ for 32
years now. Have been spirit-filled for 28 of those years and learned
everything I know directly from the Holy Spirit. I also move in the
gifts, anyway, I watched 2 clips of Todd on Youtube and my
discernment is this. He is following and patterning his
"ministry" from others like him. The lingo, mannerisms etc.
come from others. He's mimicking them. He is also doing a bit of
showboating, he is enjoying his newfound popularity and is milking it
for all it's worth. To him it's almost a game it seems and some of
what I saw and heard didn't witness to me to be the Holy Spirit, the
angels thing, etc. I'm like you, I beleive God can and does move
wherever He wants, despite the nutjob evangelists and the same goes
for this Lakeland thing. Todd seems very immature in his walk in my
opinion, should be kept locked up with fasting and bible study for
about 10 years before he's let back out. Looks like he was thrown
into the limelight way too soon and people run to wherever everyone
else says God is moving, not realizing you don't have to fly to
another state to find the Spirit of God. Why does everyone have to
act like a nutcase when they preach? Can't they just be normal?
I mean can you see Jesus going, blah blah blah blah blah blah, bam
bam bam bam bam? Sheesh. Keep up the good work. Jeff
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Email from 7/2/08
Hi Doug. I like
thank you for your stand against Todd Bentley and the madness that is
going on in Lakeland .I discovered recently that some close friends
are sending their son to Todd’s college in Canada. My wife and I
have tried to plead with them that this would be a bad idea. We
discovered sadly that they have openly sold themselves over to this
madness. Suddenly our friends became hostile to us and do not want to
hear anything we have tried to say. The deception, which is upon
them, is great. We have made it clear that we cannot walk with them.
The Lord told me that in Baal worship the first thing that was
sacrificed was the children. Our friends are sending their child to
jump into these Lakeland flames to burn with Todd’s vision. Keep
going with what you are doing .. God Bless
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
FROM YOUTUBE
BOX: (06/23/08)
Hi there brother
in christ!
I used to be
convinced that Todd Bentley is a messenger from Jesus, and that
everything he does is for Jesus.
Though not anymore
when I saw your "Todd Bentley - Lakeland - WHAT IS THIS?!"
part 1&2.
I already had a
few doubts about Todd, since there were a few things not mentioned in
the bible that do happen in his ministry. Right now I'm no longer
convinced, and only will be if Jesus tells me exactly what's going on
here, it's deadly serious as you know as well.
The reasons why I
was so convinced that he's a messenger from Jesus are these:
(I'd also like you
to tell me, if you can by mentioning bible verses, if satan can do
that as well).
1. He's (nearly)
always doing the miracles in Jesus' name [see matthew 12: 22-37 and
Mark 9: 38-50]
2. I heared that
more than a million people converted to christianity in his ministry
(I'm not 100% sure though)
3. He has (perhaps
supposedly) revived 20 people from the dead, even someone from hell.
4. I never heared
him say anything I knew was a or not true.
5. I recall
hearing him say 'Jesus is lord', and am wondering if 1 Corinthians
12: 3 is ment litteral. I remember having heared of a story of
a demon-possessed boy who could not say those words, and the demon
threw him through the room.
6. He preaches
about sinning less in some videos.
God Bless,
C....
+++++
{MY RESPONSE}
Hi Brother,
1) Matt 7:22
makes it clear that people CAN do those things in Jesus name and Him
still refuse them. Acts 19 is another example of people delivering
demons in the Name of Jesus, but not really having the spiritual
authority and faith to stand in the day of battle. If you go to a
psychic fair, you will see people there doing all kinds of things in
the name of Jesus. That alone is not proof.
2) I haven't
heard that. If you watch this video - http://martyrs.ning.com/video/video/show?id=1971475%3AVideo%3A702
- you'll see what that is very, VERY exaggerated - whether they
realize it or not.
3) Of the
reports that I have heard, none of them had anything to do with Todd
directly. David Hogan claims over 300, but can't substantiate the
ones where HE himself was actually there. That God raises the dead, I
have no doubt. That the prayer of the least is still heard, I have no
doubt. That Todd is required, I have doubt.
4) I have heard
LOTS of stuff. Even stories change. Not to mention that he claims
many times that God told him to do something when it could NOT have
been God tell him to kick a woman in the face so the Holy Spirit
would show up.
5) Again, back
to Matt. 7:22. PEOPLE can say that Jesus is Lord and not mean it.
Demons can't. (I John 4:3) I, too, have seen people so possessed that
they can't speak His name or claim Him as Lord. But also seen people
that were atheists or deluded Christians or whatever that COULD get
it out of their mouth. I'm not sure where the line is, but again,
that alone isn't proof. LOTS of people use His name and absolutely
AREN'T one of His! In fact, I haven't said Todd
was a satanist, but that he was deluded. I haven't said that there
was NO Holy Spirit at work here - but that it was a move of God, a
test, to destroy all those who seek after the wrong things.
6) A
counterfeit is only a good counterfeit if it shares SOME of the
components with the real. I don't preach about sinning less - I
preach about radical transformation that BURNS IT OUT of you. Jesus
wants PERFECTION and HOLINESS - not sinning less. Some of that on the
video attached. http://martyrs.ning.com/video/video/show?id=1971475%3AVideo%3A1434
Hope that
helps. Love you.
Doug
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hi brother!
I fully support
what you are saying when you are talking about the Todd Bentley
"revival" being a move of God. You are correct when you say
that it is a move of God bent on the destruction of the wicked,
because the Bible says in 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 that God would send
a delusion to unbelievers in order to condemn them for relishing
their sin and stuff. I totally support what you are saying, and I'm
glad that you mentioned it. :D
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hello Doug,
We spoke on the
phone a few weeks ago and I was blessed by your time. I Agree
with your latest video on the Lakeland movement "of God"
- I agree wholeheartedly. The lack of spiritual authority
by the men in the church has let this spirit of Antichrist in the
church. You'll notice this movement attracts spiritually and
emotionally castrated men and controlling and rebellious
women. The one common trait I have also seen is that
people who have unresolved father issues or frustrated father
relationships are prime candidates for this deception. I have
also noticed that these same folks are the ones who have a higher
rate of sexual deviation problems both before and after being born
again. I did a refresher study on angels and was reminded that
when a true angel shows up, they have the apperance of as men.
The glory of their countenance is so manifest (usually) that even men
of God bow down to worship them and have to be reminded and even
chastised by the angels to only worship God. This manifest
glory is not on the demonic beings that are appearing in
Lakeland. There is such a non-chalant and cavalier attitude
about an angel being present - these people are so familiar
with lying spirits that they are comfortable communing with
them. You are right - there has been a strong delusion
sent. I am getting the word out to repel these spirits from
California. We have enough issues to deal with. We are
holding up the cross everyday here. Please remain in agreement
with California. As far as the Lakeland movement - No - No and
NO in Jesus' name.
God bless you and
yours Doug.
Ken
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Shalom Warriors
and thank you very much for this video which in my view is 100% correct.
Many people have
emailed me regarding Bentley over the last few months, so I did my
own research and I am firmly in agreement with you
Beyond the
research, the first time I looked at him the WORD given in my
spirit was
So I have been
preaching this to all who ask me and now I also use your video.
I may do a post on
this at my blog this weekend on this as well and embed your
video there
About me: I
am what I call a "Feral Jewtian" , LOL!
Jewish by birth,
not raised Jewish, had an encounter with Christ three years ago
after ten years of bible study (I was going to officially
CONVERT to Judaism , I can not prove my mother's lineage)
ANYWAY
that became
unecessary and my testimony is a Long story
As it stands now I
am not affiliated with any ~ ism and church or any shul
I am on fire for
GOD. I am devoted to the WORD.
I have been
renewed in my Mind and Soul by Jesus the Messiah and I have what
might be considered a "virtual " ministry that happened all
by itself - also a long story.
I am at war as you
are at war and I like what you say and what I see on your page.
I just wanted to
thank you for standing in the WORD and doing what you do. Yes,
even the very elect will be decieved. When / if I do the post
and embed your video and your site info I will let you know
Go with GOD my
friends. I can see easily from here that you do.
We must thread the
eye of a needle in these days there is deception all around us and
the only way to do that is STAY IN THE WORD.
I can see that you
understand this.
Your Sister in
Yeshua Messiah Jesus the Christ
Barbara
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
{AN EMAIL
FROM GERMANY. Show mercy on her English :-) }
Hi Brother Doug,
never heard from
you, thank to God to find your video.
Want you to tell a
little....I searched for some people who thinks or get the feeling,
that Todd Bentley is not doing what he is talking about.
I watched the Show
for couple of days and I felt that somthing must be wrong. One
evening I´ve watched the show with a friend. And she laid down
on the floor few minutes after watching. and was shaking.Something
inside me, said. Watch at the Hands of this guy (Todd), he allways
shows the sign for Satan. And I said to my self, no no, what I think
now....he is doing it sometimes with not thinking about anything. And
I watched few evenings more. I allways asked Jesus for telling me, if
this is ok to watch. On one evening, I had a big zyste in my Body and
liked to let pray for me...I hold the hand on the TV and i had a
strange feeling and bad pain in one minute in the Body- Next day when
I wannted to watch again, the card for my reviver was broken. Jesus
told me to visit a Seminar from the adventists...I listend. And they
told me about wrong prophets and a few people who are doing the work
for Satan not for God. 2 Weeks later, my Card came and I could watch
again. First I prayed to Jesus and told him, please sh
so and today, with
your words he makes me absolutly sure, that this is from him, making
me stopping watching this. I just can say thanks thanks thanks, to my
best friend Jesus!! that he saved me!!
I love him so much.
Just wanted to
know this storry!!
Elke - Germany
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Doug-
I just watched
your video on youtube regarding the Todd Bentley Lakeland
Revival. I was intrigued by what was happening in Lakeland at
first- but got a check in my spirit even before watching the webcast
of the Revival. The Lord seemed to lead me to a passage of
scripture in Zephaniah- to give me an indication of what's really
going on here. I'll share that in a moment- but before I do let
me back up to about 15 years ago. Rodney Howard Browne was in
Jacksonville holding revival meetings at New Life Christian Fellowship.
I went to the
meeting and one night went down for prayer. One of the elders of the
church prayed for me. I went down in the spirit, got up , and on the
way back to my seat heard "Zechariah 5:8" in my
spirit. I opened my New King James Bible to that verse, and
read the following:
"then he
said, “This is Wickedness!”...
This was the
second time he had come to Jacksonville, and it had become quite a
circus act. The Holy Ghost Bartender- was telling us to "Have
another drink." There was no reverence, no humility, and
the people seemed to be there to "GET WHAT HE"S
GOT" as you stated in your video. I really felt that the Lord
was displeased with what this so called revival had become- people
coming from miles around to see the Holy Ghost Bartender. They seemed
to be idolizing Rodney Howard Browne to an almost celebrity
status-and the focus seemed to be on him rather that Christ. At
any rate- these revivals seem to leave alot of turmoil and all
manner of disruption in their wake.
Fast foward to
today- the Todd Bentley revival.
Same thing,
different day.
Mark
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dear Sirs;
I just watched
your video "Todd Bentley-Is this a move of God" and I say
thank you, thank you! I went to ONE of his meetings, because
the ignighted church is right up the road from my house! We (my
mom and sister) had heard about the miracles and wanted to go and see
what it was all about. We worshiped for over 2 hours, after
waiting in line outside for over and hour and half. Finally the
evangelist (at least I thought that was what he was) came onto the
stage. He did not start praching. We left very shortly
after that, because we all had to go to work the next day. Me,
my mom, and sister walked out of that meeting, and my sister said,
Well is it just us? I didn't get anything out of that. I
said, well, he didn't preach the word, why not? My mother was
just as appalled. She went home, and the Lord started speaking
to her, telling her that the word was not being preached, and souls
were not being saved!
I wanted to say
you Doug, are right on about what TRUE revival is!!!!
FOREVER YOURS,
"L"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I know what you
mean, me, my husband, our children have backed off from everything
christian, to learn from our lord himself, he loves us, and he's
touching HIS people as he's touched you, I'm asking for you to agree
with me for the christians in our small community. Todd
Bentley's works are all the way over here too, in a small North
American Indian Reserve in Northern Saskatchewan Canada - pray for us
and our town, that God will touch, heal, deliver, and santify before
anymore die unnecessarily. Thank you.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
{DETAILS
CHANGED TO PROTECT IDENTITY}
Hello Bro Doug:
Im not so sure if
this will help, But I live in {STATE} and there a few churches out
here in {STATE} that are ministries that were started by people that
have no church affiliations like SBC or the COG. but were started by
street ministries. I have stopped going to church because the church
is SICK!!!!! They dont preach and teach the Gospel as it should
be preached. I met a gal a yr ago on myspace that lives in the
same town as I do and got me to going to her church. This church does
support IHOP, and even had some one from Ihop come and speak to us.
But the first time I heard the pastor speak, red flags went off in my
spirit and the feeling I got was an un nereving need to flee, I didnt
flee but stayed in this church. But I was uncomfortable in this
church. I never heard any preaching on repentance, just this seeker
sensitive message.
I have been free
from this church since march and havent darkend the door way at all.
When I read my
first blog and seen the first video on This so called revival in
Lakeland. I dont know if it was God that spoke this too me or
if it was just me thinking in advance but I knew I would reveive a
email from a lady in that church i used to attened.
I started to hear
about this revival in early May, and not long after maybe in
the middle of the month I recevied an email from a lady in this
church I used to attened.
Really praiseing
this. I sent her an email back and rebuked her and the entire list of
ppl on the emailing list.
I sent proof back
to her on this being fake and she had the nerve to claim to it is
just like smith wigglesworth, I dont know much about him I have a
book of his sermons but I havent read this book as of yet..
But I have been
hurt by this church and Hurt over their lack of descernment.
They claim they
miss me out there but not once in the yr that I have known these
people they have not once picked up the phone to call me to see if im
ok or why I havent been back, But I do think the pastor of this
chruch knows he cant fool me because of some of the emaill I have
sent out that are very biblical.
i hope this will
be answered God Bless you Doug for exposing The mad cow disease that
the church is spreading
God Bless you Bro Doug
In Jesus name. Micael
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
{DETAILS
CHANGED TO PROTECT IDENTITY}
my name is
"J" , i am a youth leader and a leader at a youth movement
called "XOXOXO". im from a youth group in XOXOXO. we have a
youth movement going on for "XO" months now at our church.
we have people come from, all around XOXOXOXOXO to this event, called
XOXOXOXO. recently we had a leader go to the lakeland revivals and
come back and speak to this group of believers, this guy came back ,
he looked diffrent , something was different about him . my spirit
did not agree with what this guy had , others have exspressed my
concern and that is why im contacted you . i did some research and
this is the only website sasying something against this movement.
when this guy came he laid hands on this body of young people on my
youth group and his girlfriend laid hands on the girls . im askin you
what is this , what can i do as a youth leader and a leader at
XOXOXOXOX. the guy heading this up now wants this guy to inpart
things into us from the lakeland revivals. what should be my next
move ? please write back as soon as you can.
in CHRIST,
"J"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hi Doug
I want to thank
you for the warning on Todd Bentley as many up here in BC Canada are
madly doing thier homework to see what he is all about while others
are falling for it hook line and sinker. Sigh ...
In my research I
came across this site that I want to share with you and perhaps you
already know of it. It's called Watch Unto Prayer by Barbara
Aho. On there I found an article named The Latter Rain Revival http://watch.pair.com/rain.html
which gives more history to Todd Bentley and his Seer Prophets.
It has greatly helped me undertstand in detail where this stems from
and it's gnostic roots.
Thanks again for
spreading the word.
Debbie
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dear Brother Doug,
Hello and God
Bless you!
Your message
labeling the demonstration, experience, and preaching of Todd Bentley
is greatly appreciated.
As for me and my
house we will pray w/ you and others for the deliverance of silly
brethren and the fullness of destruction of the others that are
messing w/ God and His Holy business.
We have a friend
that is messing w/ this "Todd Bentley - IHOP" bunch and it
is VERY disturbing.
See you soon.
JM
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dear Doug,
I couldn't agree
with you more. I recently went to a revival and it was all about
feeling good and "Bless me!" I was into the occult, even
though I am Jewish, and I saw some women being possessed by unclean
spirits under the guise of "blessing" and revival. They
were thrashing about and convulsing like people I had seen taken over
by candomblé/orisha (voodou) spirits.
In this service we
were told that we are "jesus", another new age belief.
The Bible verse exponded was one that I was very familiar when
I was a Kabbalist. My past has served as alarm for false movings of G-d.
There was no
mourning about sins, it was a "panem and
circenses"...."bread and circuses". I am sickened and
grieved by the entertainment attitude that has crept into the body of Messiah.
It's not about G-d
and the Redeemer any more, it's about making "me" feel good
and what "I", the "ego" can get from it. It is no
longer about being servants.
V' imru AMEN,
Ezra
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Comment in
YouTube box:
KUDOS to your video
Praise God for you
speaking the truth!! I met a person on Godtube who is into this sort
of thing...( mile Bickle, Todd Bentley, etc) to make a long story
short, I had to stop communication completely with this person
because of the harassment that I was getting because I believed it
was not of God.... Keep Preaching the truth Brother!!~!!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Comment from
YouTube box:
fire revival
thank you for the
message and clarification regarding todd bentley et al. ths is making
it easy for me at least to find good churches (virtual and otherwise)
right now because i KNOW what is up and can't believe all the people
that are falling for that, people who KNOW the Bible too, crazy! my
mom kept calling me which is why i even tuned in, and pretty
immediately realized Houstin we have a problem, so after she kept
calling I kept researching, and i am indebted to eloquent and more
experienced people like yourself who have just helped me so much to
realize i'm not alone in my thinking or that there is just something
wrong with me, although my mom won't one word about it at this point
even though she's the one who's been calling me. it's a little odd,
usually she has a scripture for everything, but right now she has
little interest in that! just wants to hang up and get some from the
tv. i'm particularly troubled by the way supporters are responding to
criticism, isn't it really off? i don't have a lot to compare it by
as i don't go to churches much and only recetly discovered the good
possiilities of the internet in that regard, but i agree this is
major and a little creepy, and i've grownup in every kind of
pentecostal church.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It's so odd that I
chose a time to post my blog entry about Todd Bentley and emma, just
before this "revival" broke out on April 2nd. Not
sure if you have read it yet or not. But, since the Todd
Bentley revival started, the hits on my blog have sky-rocketed (1835
in May so far). That is by far the most hit blog entry on my
blog, at 7 times more hits in May, than any other blog entry.
It's been the number one on my blog for quite some time. Not to
mention that the VAST majority of searches on google and such, that
point to my blog, are about Todd Bentley. I think it's
somewhere upwards of 70% now.
It's so awesome to
know that God protects us, and keeps us, even before deceptions come
our way.
Here's some
related blog entries I have created that may be worth the read.
http://blog.trentonadams.ca/2008/03/24/todd-bentley-patricia-king-and-emma-the-angel-of-light/
http://blog.trentonadams.ca/2008/05/07/loop-hole-of-the-kingdom/
http://blog.trentonadams.ca/2008/05/07/a-super-healing-anointing/
http://blog.trentonadams.ca/2008/05/10/do-miracles-validate-a-ministry/
http://blog.trentonadams.ca/2008/04/28/testimony-of-todd-bentley-conference-2005/
Here's a
particularly interesting one about these "oil"
manifestations we've been seeing as well...
http://blog.trentonadams.ca/2008/03/24/patricia-king-and-dripping-oil/
Trenton
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Thanks, Doug. We
have the gold dust, gold teeth and gem stones being delivered by
angels here in our area at a Lakeland type church. I am sure that the
leadership has already flown down there to get a fresh infusion of
Satanic trash to spill out on the congregation and all who come to
their conferences. Here is their website: www.thegatewayintl.org
Michael
"One
hundred religious persons knit into a unity by careful orginization
do not constitute a church anymore than eleven dead men make a
football team." ~ Man, the Dwelling Place of God ~ A. W. Tozer
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Thanks for your messages.
I was searching
for info re: Lakeland Fla and listened to your message. Your
statements regarding a false Jesus really hit me hard. I went to a
church in Michigan...in fact to several and have prayed several times
before going up that if what-ever-it was was not of God and what
Jesus intended then I wanted full protection from God the Father and
Jesus Christ for nothing to happen.
And guess what.............
God the Father and
Jesus protected me from what the others in the charismatic audiences got.
Such has been the
case on multiple occasions and I agree with you to be weary of a
false god and not to follow a false Jesus.
Thanks for your
video clips.
May the Lord above
bless you and yours-
Alice
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Comment from
YouTube box:
Todd Bentley
Great word about
what's going on in Lakeland. I heard about it from a fellow believer
and decided to look into it. I know nothing of the Kansas City and
Angel named "Emma" thing, but as I watched different videos
on youtube from the events, I noticed that there was no Truth
speaking. The focus was clearly on works and signs...completely void
of the Bible. Even in backstage talks with Todd himself, the focus
was on how big the event has gotten, how big it would get, and what
all will happen.
I thought about
Paul and the apostiles, and how God used them in the ways of signs
and wonders, but in all of their writings they were obsessed with the
Truth and with Jesus. They didn't brag about how much they'd done,
they were passionate about their readers getting the Truth of Jesus.
I also thought
about Matthew 7, where Jesus speaks of the people who will come to
him saying "didn't we prophesy, didn't we cast out demons and do
many great wonders"? He will say "depart from me, you
workers of iniquity". Those people are focused on the signs and
wonders. The things people like to brag about. They missed it. Not
just focused on good works, but "BIG" works. Works that not
too many people do. But if there is no Jesus, then it's all for
naught. What I saw in Lakeland reminded me of that.
I do hope their
eyes are opened to the Truth.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Message in
YouTube box:
Todd Bently
Hi Doug,
I have spoken to
you online a little. I recently became a Christian. The woman who
helped me come to Christ in fellowship asked me to go to a Todd
Bently crusade. I wasn't going to go but something told me to go at
the last minute - I turned up late. When I got there a speaker was
saying he could see light beams travelling down from heaven onto the
people. Immediately I knew he was lying. I got really angry inside
and against the protests of my friends, they are still my friends,
one of them is now my girlfriend, I walked out.
I find it strange
that you are now talking about the same guy. I am from Australia.
Should I try to reach my friends and my girlfriend. They seem to just
be after the next spiritual high. They speak in tongues and have been
touched and fallen over. Is this even right? I don't see biblical
basis for mindless blabbering that doesn't mean anything to the
speaker or anyone listening.Also, how does falling down bring glory
to God? Why does he want me to fall on the ground. Also, perhaps this
disconcerts me the most, my Father (earthly) told me he fell on the
ground once and couldn't help it when he was touched by a paster. He
is not a Christian and has no reason to lie. What is your opinion on
these things and faith healing?
This stuff has
annoyed me for quite some time. I think my girlfriends church is full
of money grubbing liars. Is it a sin to think such things? How can I
tell if my gut feeling is just me or God letting me know through my conscience?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
Neutral
or Questioning Responses |
Hi Doug,
We spoke via email
last summer concerning things going on in the church. My name is Bob.
I am from upstate NY. The reason for my email is I have some grave
concerns regarding this revival taking place in Florida. It seems to
be ushering in alot of confusion amongst various Christian Churches
in my area, especially the Charasmatic ones.
There has been
quite a bit of coverage on whats happening in Florida through Todd
Bentleys fresh fire ministries. I decided to do some research, I
found that he is steeped in "Latter Rain" teaching. Also it
seems his personal mentors are none other than Bob Jones & Mike Bickle.
Alot of strange
manifestations seem to be happening, and even stranger Angelic
experiences. I was just curious to know if any of this has affected
people out your way yet, and how you are handling it?
In CHRIST JESUS
Bob
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hello, I've just
seen this warning on your web site. I am from Poland and I've seen
some Florida revival meetings on god tv... Oh my God... its just
horrible. What a sickness !!!
When browsing
through your site, being happy that somebody is reacting, I started
to watch your video warning, and i was a bit disappointed... I mean
its good that somebody is going to warn against this Florida
sickness, but why did you admitt that this IS THE MOVE OF GOD??? Ok,
I get the irony and I understand, that by that statement you meant
that this "revival" is a test, which either proves you can
follow what is truly from God, or that you can be deceived - ok,
but it was NOT a good way of putting it i am afraid. If you say
its work of God its like saying its his active involvement, some
plan, and its not biblical. Jesus is a good sheppard, he is neither
leading his sheeps in a wrong direction, nor creating anything that
is meant to deceive (for some practice...) The evil is operating
autonomously, God is LETTING for this, treating as a test, but not
contributing to this, not taking ANY CREATIVE part in this, c'mon,
evil is a result of disobedience and turning away from God.....Such
things like this Florida sick frenzy can be a work of some seriously
ill or clever, greedy people (or both) ... or ... of some evil
spirit, whatever its name is.... I am not competent to judge wheather
it is only some people's will or something much more, its not my
ministry. Sure, I have my opinion - to my mind it would be really too
difficult to achieve as much as this sick movement has achieved only
by human force... but my opinion is not most important here.
Thanks anyway for
engaging in this serious issue, but i really have to disagree with
your statement regarding the role of God, "intent on your
distruction"... such statement is just not true and sounds
really bad even if meant as a metaphore...
K...
{MY RESPONSE TO K...}
Hi K,
Thanks for your
encouragement. As for your complaint, I think you are biblically in
error. Let me show you:
1 Kings
22:19-23 (KJV) - 19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the
LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of
heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. 20 And the
LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at
Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that
manner. 21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD,
and said, I will persuade him. 22 And the LORD said unto him,
Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit
in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade
him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. 23 Now therefore, behold, the
LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets,
and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.
Deut 28:45-49
(KJV) - 45 Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall
pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou
hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his
commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee: 46 And they
shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for
ever. 47 Because thou servedst not the LORD thy God with joyfulness,
and with gladness of heart, for the abundance of all things; 48 Therefore
shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against
thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all
things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have
destroyed thee. 49 The LORD shall bring a nation against thee
from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a
nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;
Deut 13:1-3
(ESV) - 1 "If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you
and gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or wonder that he
tells you comes to pass, and if he says, 'Let us go after other
gods,' which you have not known, 'and let us serve them,' 3 you shall
not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams.
For the Lord your God is testing you, to know whether you love
the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deut 28:62-63
(KJV) - 63 And it shall come to pass, that as the LORD rejoiced over
you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice
over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall
be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it.
Isaiah 45:5-7
(KJV) - 5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God
beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6 That they
may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is
none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. 7 I form the
light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the
LORD do all these things.
Dan 9:14 (ESV)
- 14 Therefore the Lord has kept ready the calamity and has
brought it upon us, for the Lord our God is righteous in all the
works that he has done, and we have not obeyed his voice.
2 Sam 24:16-17
(ESV) - 16 And when the angel stretched out his hand toward Jerusalem
to destroy it, the Lord relented from the calamity and said to the
angel who was working destruction among the people, "It is
enough; now stay your hand." And the angel of the Lord was by
the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite. 17 Then David spoke to
the Lord when he saw the angel who was striking the people, and said,
"Behold, I have sinned, and I have done wickedly. But these
sheep, what have they done? Please let your hand be against me
and against my father's house."
2 Thess 2:10-12
(KJV) - 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them
that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that
they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them
strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all
might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
1 Sam 16:14
(ASV) - 14 Now the Spirit of Jehovah departed from Saul, and an
evil spirit from Jehovah troubled him.
I know this may
wreck all the theology you've been taught in "church" - but
I can't help that. Either it's in the Bible or it's not. To
believe that God isn't fully in charge, sort of denies His
sovereignty, doesn't it? He says that He Himself will do it and
He does. Satan could never touch Job unless God approved it -
and in fact, God brought it up in the first place!
Maybe you could
chew on that and see what the Lord shows you. I can give you more
verses if you like.
May the Lord
God Almighty bring us all into His TRUTH.
God bless.
Doug
|
Negative
Responses
(You
ready for this? Count the cost before you tell God He can do whatever
He wants with you!) |
Email from 7/10/08
I just saw your
video on youtube. I apologize, for not knowing your name. I’ll
try to make this short. I really don’t know if Todd Bentley is
the real deal or not and don’t really care. What I do care about
is there are many, who like yourself, are willing to criticize and
call him and many others down from afar because they don’t fit
into your particular I’m right your wrong religious style. If
you are so sure he is false then why don’t you, being the real
deal as you are, go and challenge him on his platform in front of
everyone, to a real old fashioned Elijah like, bring down the fire,
kill the false guys, my God is the real God showdown. Or shutup
Rod
Pensacola, Florida
+++++
MY RESPONSE
TO ROD:
It's nice to
know that the person rebuking me doesn't care who is or is not the
real deal - just that they need to all shut up. Is that it?
Why don't I go
down there? Because there would be no end to the face-offs with all
the people that are mangled up and still standing on platforms.
AND because I don't obey you, I obey God. And if God said to go do
that, I would go immediately and have no doubt whatsoever about the
result. The Lord is taking care of Todd just fine - he's getting
farther and farther out there and more people are seeing it.
If you are
hearing God and you think it's OK to go rebuking people because they
don't fit your particular I'm right your wrong religious style, then
why don't YOU come here and have a real old fashioned Elijah showdown
with me? At least I knew Todd's name before I spoke a rebuke.
Are you sure you even prayed about this before popping off?
Aren't you telling me NOT to do what YOU just did?! If the
people telling me I'm not hearing Jesus were actually ACTING like
Jesus, it would be a lot more believable.
I spent a lot
of time in prayer and fasting before I ever said anything. I have
prayed for and continue to pray for Todd and all involved that the
Lord's Light would shine on all of it and that He would have mercy on
whom He will have mercy.
May the Lord
Jesus Christ richly bless you in whatever way He thinks best.
(Which might include holding you down and removing the plank from
your eye with a big pair of tweezers.)
And so that you
know, I am:
Doug Perry
Liberty, Missouri
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Comment in
YouTube Box:
Why even try to
change people with these videos?
Everybody who is
antichrist or a false prophet is trying to draw people away from God
and the grace that He have given through Jesus Christ. If you´re
a man of God, you should stop these videos and bless the people God
is using. Todd Bentley and all the other known christian leaders are
not perfect, but they´re people that are used by God because
they´ve confessed that they´re totaly dependent on the Holy
Spirit and are willing to do whatever it takes to make Gods love
known. Todd Bentley has been standing on that stage many hours every
day in allmost two months, and that is not an easy job. Many people
are getting healed in Jesus name(which wouldn´t have happened if
he was antichrist), people are getting set free and other GOOD
things. The videos you are posting, is not a blessing to people. If
something tells you that it is, it´s a lie. The lie is not from
God! Bless the revival so that people can meet God. Nobody will meet
God through these videos!!!
Be blessed!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
By email in
response to the
e-newsletter
of 5/20/08:
I went to
Lakeland. I understand the resevations you have and I was very
hesitant to go but seeing as how this guy (Bentley) is anything but
charismatic (in the personality sense) I wasn't afraid of being swept
into some false move.
The woman I went
with was dramatically healed, she was knocked off her feet and
slammed into the dirt, quite unceremonially, and said it was like the
Lord rammed a rod up her back and did an adjustment. She also had a
torn rotator cuff - healed. We're waiting on the tests about her diabeties.
I personally was
just revived.... I didn't feel the weight of His glory but I have had
numerous opportunities to share the gospel - there and home. I went
up for prayer and finally let them lay me on the floor so as to not
have that spirit of fear cast out of me any more. haha. But it was
apparent that many are being healed and jessu got the glory. The only
person really talking about repentence was the worship leader Roy ? -
I never evne got his name. I would prefer Todd give a more rounded
message but then it ain't my revival......... if you can do better -
tell the Lord you'd like the opportunity.
The thing about it
was that for the first two days - none of the healings were done when
Todd laid hands on people - they were alraedy healed when they went
to the platform. We were all praying for one another.
No offering was
taken till after 11:30 at night - when 20-25% of the people had left.
No CDs/Book sales
and only a few tables of books. I didn't know for the first day that
he even had written a book. I really hate the sermons that are more
like sales pitches for their own books but there was none of this.
What sickens me
now is the division is not being caused from these people but from
those who are claiming to be above all the fray. You and Andrew Strom
in particular, and I apologize but you both seem to have an axe to grind.
The friend I went
with is a wonderful - loving on fire Christian who has been suffering
through unforgiveness bc her daughter was sexually abused. It was no
accident that she was the one healed and prophecied over that she had
unforgiveness she needed to deal with. With Bentley's history - she
now has to look at why she can't forgive her own family. Plus she
went with me - who has already dealt with this.
I don't see what
purpose there is in claiming that you have a better way when you
serve up a 'spirit of suspicion' for all to partake. Either go there
and name the problem or give it back to the Lord!!!!!
My take on
Lakeland - it would be just as good or better without Todd Bentley.
He is not taking any glory nor should he.
Sincerely, Be
blessed in His presence, Andrea
++++++++++++++++
{OK, HERE IS
MY RESPONSE.}
Why did the
Holy Spirit feel it necessary to slam someone into the dirt?
Why was she injured in the first place - and if it was a consequence
for disobedience, when did she repent? Why would God turn
without her repenting? Diabetes is a wasting disease and one of the
curses in Deut. 28. Don't you have to say you're sorry?
Here's the
confirmations I got about this. ONE person was talking about
repentance and she didn't even remember his name. (And I'm not sure
who "jessu" is, but confusion is of the enemy, too.)
Todd's message was not well-rounded and even people defending him
know it.
And HERE is
a big one!! "NONE of the healings were done when Todd laid
hands on them - They were ALREADY healed when they went to the
platform." Did you get that?!?! That is an ABSOLUTE
confirmation of all that we have been preaching here about the cups
and about God waiting on US to BE the Rain, and stop praying for the
Rain! When the BRIDE does it herself, it's ALWAYS better than
when paid clergy do it!! This is SUCH a critical point!
It's all about the JESUS in YOU, not the JESUS in Todd!
And she ends
with "it would be just as good or better without Todd
Bentley" - of which I have no doubt that it would be better.
And for the
record, I've been praying for an opportunity for more than three
years and have no doubt whatsoever that pretty much ANY number of the
people here in Liberty (and others that I know) could do it better -
because they know how to get out of God's way and they know how to
listen REAL good and do whatever He tells them and they know how to
empower the people. And they know enough to warn EVERYONE NOT
TO PUT A MAN ON A PEDESTAL
AND WORSHIP HIM!!!
Hope that helps.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It is a dangerous
place to be when you begin to take the seat of judge. We don't
belong there.
Didn't Jesus
Himself say "how can satan cast out satan" to the past day critics?
The enemy doesn't
desire to see people healed. Gods will is life and it more abundantly.
The enemies to to
kill, steal and destroy.
God can move
without a preacher. God is doing a new thing and just a
forewarning .... our job isn't to judge others. It's to humble urself
and pray.
As they will be
judged for what they do up there, so you will too.
And ps, this is
transforming cities. Is this the last day revival? No, not
"thee" last day revival, but it's a spark.
You are spreading
YOUR opinion and in essence, gossip. It's very sad.
~**** Miss
Jennifer ****~
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hello,
this is my comment
to your statement to the Lakeland Happenings that are going on right now!
You claim that
this is a move of god, but in form of a test (or let me say, a sedution).
But let me correct
you: Your judgement concerning this move of god ist theologically and
spiritually absolutely wrong.
God can´t and
does not want to seduce anyone!!! You can find this very clear
statement in Jak 1, 13. The sixth beggin of the prayer by Jesus in Mt
6, 9 ff. means not a contradiction, because it says literally
"and make not, that we get into secuction". So there is
definitively another seducing someone, and we need god to safe us
from his influence!
God can not do
both, to seduce and to safe you from the seduction. THIS would rather
be a demonic theology!!!
But spiritually
(that is connected with the theology) your claim cant be right as
well! You see something growing and healing in Lakeland right now,
right? You see victorys by the holy name of Jesus Christ sweeping
peoples hearts from the demonic greece-spirit, that our society and
church is laking on: The imagination of a god, who is not there or
wants people to suffer instead of healing them and show his love and
peace and power thriumphing over any kind of darkness!
You say, that
there is no Gospel being preached (which is definitively not right),
but there is Gospel happening and healing as signs (Mk 16, 15-18) for
the coming of gods wonderful kingdom (Lk 4, 17 ff./ Lk 7, 22).
You are making
sour out of sweet, and sweet out of sour!
Im Dennis {XXXXX},
student of protestant Theology in Germany, and I claim the Lakeland
movement as a move of god and a wind of change!
+++++++++++
{My response to Dennis}
Hi Dennis,
Thanks for your email.
In II
Chronicles 18, we see very clearly that God WILL send a seducing or
lying spirit to destroy someone. We also see clearly in Rev. 11:7 and
13:7 that in these days satan is given power to make war against the
saints and OVERCOME them. That's not just by physical force,
but by subterfuge and lies and seducing spirits. I didn't say that
God Himself was seducing them at Lakeland, simply that it IS a move
of God, it WILL change everything and that, at least in part, God is
allowing the enemy of our souls to seduce whoever will be
seduced. It's also clear in Deuteronomy 13, that the Lord WILL
test by sending a prophet or dreamer who WILL do real miracles and
signs, and yet it is a test to see if you will be swayed to follow
their false gods or not. He WILL do that. And is doing it. He
says that He will separate the wheat from the tares - and how does He
do that? With ANGELS - good ones and bad ones. I don't disagree with
James 1:13 - but the Lord WILL send angels to test them! I Tim.
1:20 makes it clear as well that Paul turned people over to satan for
the destruction of their flesh. I believe that is happening on a
massive scale in this age.
Your reference
to the Lord's Prayer confirms what I'm saying. If we are to
pray, "Lead us not into temptation" or even "make not
that we get into seduction" then we MUST be praying it because
it IS a possibility that He COULD allow us to be led into temptation
or make us get into seduction! In fact, Romans 1:16-32
describes what He will do to those who hold the Truth unrighteously.
This is what He will do to those who know the Truth, but made it
about THEMSELVES instead of Fear of the Lord! And these are the
symptoms we're seeing in Lakeland. There is nowhere in the
Bible that you can find "stupor" or "blindness"
being put on people except at the hand of God. 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12
makes it clear that the enemy will do signs and wonders and GOD will
send a powerful delusion so that people will believe a lie. Your
arguments cannot surmount the clear statement of verse 11 that GOD
did it himself. Deut. 28 confirms that GOD will send you confusion
and blindness if you don't carefully obey and revere His Name.
How much error
and lies can this thing contain and you will still justify it?
Is THIS God? Find THIS in the Bible for me! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exb53K2v4pk
Brother, pray
that the Lord would free you from the influence of ANY doctrine of
Man or Demons that might hold you captive. Seek HIM only and FEAR GOD.
Doug
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
One of
several comments in the YouTube box from user "pastordr45"
You need to get
into the Word of God and let the eyes of your understanding be
enlightened. You have no clue to spiritual matters. The fruit of The
Florida Revival is from God. You have puffed yourself up like satan
did in heaven. Surely your folly will be made known to everyone. The
love of God is not in you. We shall know them by there love.
Its clear you are
operating out of hatred and I wish no longer to communicate with you.
I have watched the revival almost every night and only see the fruit
of the Spirit. May the true love of God get a hold of your heart.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
We have LOTS
MORE, but what's the point really? |
